Forum:2016 Pacific hurricane season/Archive 1
Retirements at a glance We've had one in the Atlantic for a while now, but since the EPac has 10 storms (11 counting Pali), we can start this here too. Here's my calls: Ryan1000's retirement predictions EPac: *Agatha - 0% - Second-latest start for the EPac proper, but still failed. *Blas - 0% - A strong hurricane, but was a fishspinner regardless. *Celia - 0% - Weaker than Blas, and also a fish. *Darby - 5% - It wasn't a fail since it did make landfall on Hawaii as a tropical storm, which isn't very common and is unique for July, but if Iselle of 2014 didn't get retired, Darby probably won't be either. *Estelle - 0% - Almost became a hurricane (and could be upgraded in post-analysis), but otherwise meh. *Frank - 0% - Defied predictions and became a hurricane, but still didn't hit land. *Georgette 0% - Became a major briefly, but died faster than it strengthened and didn't hit land. *Howard - 0% - Moderate TS fishspinner. *Ivette - 0% - Howard 2.0. *Javier - 1% - Brought some minor impacts to southern Baja, but nothing severe. *Kay - 0% - Remained well away from land. *Lester - 0% - Missed Hawaii with no impacts aside from surf, so no. *Madeline - 1% - Brushed by Hawaii and brought some minor impacts. *Newton - 12% - First hurricane to hit Cabo in 2 years, but it wasn't as powerful or damaging as Odile, and it's not as likely to be retired. *Orlene - 0% - Could've gotten stronger, but was a fishspinner nonetheless. *Paine - 0% - May have brought some extratropical floods to the southwest U.S, but those don't count towards retirement. *Roslyn - 0% - Tried, but failed. *Seymour - 0% - Some sheared convection from the storm brought rain to parts of northern Mexico and California, but it was beneficial, not damaging. CPac: *Pali - 0% - An extremely rare January hurricane, but remained far away from any land. *Ulika - 0% - Took a unique path switching from the EPac to the CPac multiple times, but it didn't harm land while doing so. There's my thoughts. Ryan1000 03:44, August 8, 2016 (UTC) TG's Retirements (Retirement colors: 0%, 0.01%, 1%, 5%, 10%, 15%, 20%, 25%, 30%, 35%, 40%, 45%, 50%, 55%, 60%, 65%, 70%, 75%, 80%, 85%, 90%, 95%, 99%, 100%)(Category colors: TS, C1, C2, C3, C4, C5)(Grading colors: A+++++, A++, A+, A, A-, B+, B, B-, C+, C, C-, D+, D, D-, E, F, Z) EPac: * Agatha: Grade: E''' Retirement: '''0% - Agatha was a fail, nonetheless. * Blas: Grade: A+ Retirement: 0% - Blas was a nice looking hurricane, but it didn't affect land. * Celia: Grade: B-''' Retirement: '''0% - Celia, like most of the others, was a fish. * Darby: Grade: A+ Retirement: 5% - Darby made landfall as a TS in Hawaii, bringing minimal impacts. Darby also refused to die. * Estelle: Grade: F''' Retirement: '''0% - Estelle was another fail. * Frank: Grade: C+ Retirement: 0% - Became a hurricane unexpectedly but regardless, Frank was a fish. * Georgette: Grade: A++ Retirement: 0% - Georgette was a very strong hurricane, but she was a fish. * Howard: Grade: F''' Retirement: '''0% - Howard only brought rain to Hawaii as a remnant low. * Ivette: Grade: Z''' Retirement: '''0% - Ivette was a fairly weak storm, and it was a failed storm. * Javier: Grade: D-''' Retirement: '''1% - Javier only brought rain showers to Baja California. * Kay: Grade: D''' Retirement: '''1% - Kay affected some small islands, that's it. * Lester: Grade: A++ Retirement: 5% - Lester was an awesome storm and always will be. * Madeline: Grade: A++ Retirement: 5% - A pretty threatening storm overall, but impacts were minimal. * Newton: Grade: C+ Retirement: 15% - 8 fatalities isn't enough for Mexico to retire Newton. * Orlene: Grade: E''' Retirement: '''0% - Failed to become a major hurricane. TG 23:08, September 11, 2016 (UTC) * Paine: Grade: B''' Retirement: '''0% - Feared to have caused bad damage at one point, but died out before reaching Baja. This system also brought much needed rain to California. * Roslyn: Grade: F''' Retirement: '''0% - Roslyn was a terrible fail. * Seymour: Grade: A++ Retirement: 0% - Seymour is the best hurricane I've tracked so far this year. Seymour rapidly intensified and defied the forecasts. [[User:TornadoGenius|'T']][[User talk:TornadoGenius|'G']] 21:50, October 25, 2016 (UTC) * Tina: Grade: Z''' Retirement: '''0% - Tina in 1992, longest lasting storm on record in the EPac. The 2016 storm, barely lasted a day. [[User:TornadoGenius|'T']][[User talk:TornadoGenius|'G']] 00:29, November 21, 2016 (UTC) CPac: * Pali: Grade: A+++++ Retirement: 0% - Very nice start to the season, however, it was a fish. TG 12:05, August 8, 2016 (UTC) * Ulika: Grade: A+ Retirement: 0% - Not bad, not bad. Ulika became the first storm to ever cross out of the CPac to EPac more than twice. The weakness of the system, however, brought the grade down to A+. [[User:TornadoGenius|'T']][[User talk:TornadoGenius|'G']] 21:20, October 15, 2016 (UTC) Ibahan1829's List of Retirement Candidates East Pacific: #'Tropical Storm Agatha': 0%: You tried again, Agatha, you failed again, Agatha. #'Category 4 Blas': 0%: It sailed the ocean blue. That's it not even a landfall, nope. The only hurricanes I prefer are these ones like Blas. #'Category 2 Celia': 0 again%: Good Celia, you kinda copied what you did six years ago and not hit land, not cause a fatality. As a bonus, you became an awesome annular hurricane at one point. Good Celia. #'Category 3 Darby': 0.5%: You tried, Darby, you thought you could copy Iselle. Even Iselle was worse for the Big Island than Darby was. See you sometime in 2022, Darby. #'Tropical Storm Estelle': 0%: So close to that, that 75 mph status. #'Category 1 Frank,' ' Category 4 Georgette,' Tropical Storm Howard: all 0%: Frank equals weak hurricane that did nothing, reached it's 2010 counterpart in strength. Georgette equals surprising, C4 monster that also did nothing. Howard equals meh TS weaker than Estelle, and did nothing anywhere, like Pali, Agatha, Blas, Celia, Estelle, Frank and Georgette that came before this. #'Tropical Storm Ivette': No%: Wimpy Tropical Storm that had much potential to become a category one, or even a good ole' two like Celia. But NO, it became a scaredy cat and be even weaker than even Estelle and Howard. Agatha had it's reasons not to do anything, but Ivette just decided to be lazy, to not even try. I'm moving on. Next! #'Tropical Storm Javier': 0.0000000000001%: First storm this year to REALLY threaten land. It barely did anything to the land except for some rain. Javier will stay for 2022. #Tropical Storm Kay: 0%: Did nothing. #Category 4 Lester: 0%: Did nothing, except for some Hawaii rain, maybe. #Category 4 Madeline: 0.5%: It threatened Hawaii, it missed Hawaii. #Category ? Newton: This currently category 1 hurricane will hit Baja California soon... Central Pacific: #'Category 2 Pali': I don't even need a percentage to give to Pali. This storm is what you call an Enigma. CATEGORY 2 MERE MILES FROM THE EQUATOR IN JANUARY!? Crap, Pali! Pressure lower than 980 makes Pali the strongest January Central Pacific hurricane since the dawn of reliable records(yes, this includes EKEKA 92). And, best of all, it existed right along with ANOTHER huricane in the Atlantic. This is practically a once in a lifetime event here. We might never get to see an event like this again in our lifetimes...[[User:IbAHAn1829tree|''Sincerely,'' IbAHAn1829, and stay safe!]] \[[User talk:IbAHAn1829tree|(:-D)Chat]]/''Ta ta!'' 12:52, August 9, 2016 (UTC) Steve's retirement predictions & storm grades: (Other users can feel free to use my colors) Tropical depressions are included but only the storm grade for them are shown, since they cannot be retired. Storm grades use factors such as intensity (weak or strong) and being unusual/record-breaking (or not). Destruction also factors in storm grades - for example, Matthew of the 2016 Atlantic season would be "A+++++" if not for the extreme destruction he caused. The greater the destruction and deaths, the more effect on the grade it has. (Retirement colors: 0%, 0.01%, 1%, 5%, 10%, 15%, 20%, 25%, 30%, 35%, 40%, 45%, 50%, 55%, 60%, 65%, 70%, 75%, 80%, 85%, 90%, 95%, 99.9%, 100%) (Grading colors: A+++++, A++, A+, A, A-, B+, B, B-, C+, C, C-, D+, D, D-, E, F, Z) East Pacific: *One-E: Grade: F''' - It failed to even become a tropical storm. The only reason it doesn't get a Z is because it caused impacts. *Agatha: Grade: '''D+ Retirement: 0% - Gets a large amount of credit for forming rapidly and unexpectedly, and for finally breaking the huge quiet streak. It did the best it can against the unfavorable conditions it faced, but was still a weak TS. *Blas: Grade: A''' Retirement: '''0% - An amazing Category 4 fishspinner. *Celia: Grade: C+ Retirement: 0% - Failed to become a major and barely peaked as a C2. However, it tried. *Darby: Grade: A-''' Retirement: '''5% - Gets credit for being a major, lasting a while, and becoming one of few storms to strike Hawaii. There is a tiny chance of retirement, but I doubt that will happen. *Estelle: Grade: E''' Retirement: '''0% - Estelle disappointed me by not becoming a hurricane. It isn't a complete fail, since it did almost reach hurricane status. But since it failed to become one despite predictions for it to do so, it gets a bad grade. *Frank: Grade: D+ Retirement: 0% - Impressed me by becoming a last-minute hurricane. It did not become one despite predictions for it to do so until the last minute, causing its grade to suffer a little. *Georgette: Grade: A''' Retirement: '''0% - Amazing storm that RI'd at the last minute, but it barely scraped C4 status. The fact that it RI'd quite unexpectedly raises its grade a lot. I like the effort that Georgette put in during its life. *Howard: Grade: E''' Retirement: '''0% - Nothing special. It struggled with westerly shear and upwelling but despite those factors, it managed 60 mph, preventing it from being a complete fail. *Ivette: Grade: F''' Retirement: '''0% - Wow, just wow. Despite continued forecasts for a potentially big hurricane (at least C2), it didn't even become one at all. It still reached 60 mph, preventing a "Z" classification. Did that shear monster attack you, Ivette the scaredy cat? Haha *Javier: Grade: E''' Retirement: '''1% - Caused some impacts in Mexico and Baja, but failed to become a hurricane. It reached 65 mph, which proves that it (somewhat) tried. *Kay: Grade: E''' Retirement: '''0% - Exceeded my expectation of being an epic name stealer. So it gets an E, instead of F or Z. No land effects means no retirement. *Lester: Grade: A+ Retirement: 0% - An awesome storm that exceeded my expectations by a bunch. It lasted a long time, further upping the grade. It passed north of Hawaii and spared them a direct hit. *Madeline: Grade: A+ Retirement: 0.01% - This REALLY exceeded my predictions! It was originally forecast to be a C1, but exploded to a C4! Nice stunt, girl. It spared Big Island from a direct hit, but it might have still caused plenty of minor impacts. *Newton: Grade: C''' Retirement: '15% '- A weak hurricane that almost became a Category 2 before punching Baja. It caused 8 fatalities and was the only storm of the season to cause fatalities AFAIK. This might have a slight shot of retirement, but that chance is still very low. *Orlene: Grade: 'C+ ' Retirement: '''0% - A strong 110 mph fishspinner, but too bad it didn't become a major. will be upgraded to a B if upgraded to a major post-analysis. *Paine: Grade: C''' Retirement: '''0.01% - Any damage in Baja or the southwest U.S. was minimal. This also brought clouds to where I live. *Roslyn: Grade: F''' Retirement: '''0% - Missed land, and was a failure. Would have gotten a Z had it not reached 50 mph. *Seymour: Grade: A+ Retirement: 0% - An all-around amazing storm that surpassed our expectations. Thankfully, it did nothing to land. *Tina: Grade: Z''' Retirement: '''0% - Ha. Haha. LOL!!! Biggest epic fail ever! This POS storm didn't even try... >:( Central Pacific: *Pali: Grade: A+++++ '''Retirement: '''0% - Damn, that was amazing. Extremely early storm and became a Category 2 as well, and it was very close to the equator. On second thought, I have decided to give my highest grade possible despite the fact it has not reached major status. It was just SO awesome - coming near the equator, existing in January, etc! No land effects, so no retirement. *Ulika: Grade: C+ '''Retirement: '''0% - No land effects. It was only a weak hurricane, but the fact that it crossed from the EPac to CPac and back raises its grade somewhat. ''St''''eve'' 19:44, August 9, 2016 (UTC) ---- KN2731's storm grades & retirements Grading from A to F, retirements in multiples of 5. Eastern Pacific # Agatha: grade E''', retirement '''0%. Span up quickly and helped to make things more favourable for Blas, but otherwise failed. # Blas: grade A''', retirement '''0%. Nice annular hurricane that didn't affect land. Thumbs up. # Celia: grade C''', retirement '''0%. Made it to C2, but was quite ragged the whole time. # Darby: grade B''', retirement '''5%. Steadfast major that lasted 2 full weeks to Hawaii. But if Iselle 2014 didn't go, you're not going either. # Estelle: grade F''', retirement '''0%. Nope, no post-analysis upgrade. Wasted both its chances. # Frank: grade C''', retirement '''0%. Nearly failed, but became a last-minute hurricane. # Georgette: grade A+, retirement 0%. Beautiful. Just the type of hurricane I like. Could have lasted longer though. # Howard: grade F''', retirement '''0%. Failed to become the 8th July storm, unless it was found to be one earlier in post-analysis. # Ivette: grade F''', retirement '''0%. You chose not to rapidly intensify? What a joke. # Javier: grade E''', retirement '''5%. First storm to pose a hurricane threat this year, but failed eventually. # Kay: grade D''', retirement '''0%. Did what it could against shear. # Lester: grade A''', retirement '''5%. Another beautiful annular hurricane that kept restrengthening against the odds. Brushed Hawaii, but overall impact was quite minor. # Madeline: grade A+, retirement 5%. Defied the normally unfavourable conditions near Hawaii to become a category 4. Hurricane warnings were up at a time, but turned away without bringing major impacts. # Newton: grade C''', retirement '''15%. 8 fatalities, but not worth retiring. # Orlene: grade C''', retirement '''0%. Will upgrade to B if we have a major in post-analysis. # Paine: grade B''', retirement '''0%. Became a 80-knot hurricane despite forecasts calling for it to be weak. # Roslyn: grade F''', retirement '''0%. Weak stuff that's not doing anything. # Seymour: grade A+, retirement 0%. Strongest storm of the season, and didn't affect land. # Tina: grade F''', retirement '''0%. Weakest storm of the season, and didn't affect land much. Central Pacific # Pali: grade A++++++++++++++++, retirement 0%. No words to describe how amazing this storm is. Ultimately won't be retired though since Ekeka didn't go either. # Ulika: grade A+, retirement 0%. Formed in the EPac, named in the CPac, and crossed 140°W three times. ~ KN2731 {talk} 08:58, January 16, 2017 (UTC) Raindrop's Retirements (Retirement colors: 0%, 0.01%, 1%, 5%, 10%, 15%, 20%, 25%, 30%, 35%, 40%, 45%, 50%, 55%, 60%, 65%, 70%, 75%, 80%, 85%, 90%, 95%, 99%, 100%) (Credit to Steve820) Eastern Pacific: *Agatha - 0% - It was a surprise that the system that became Agatha actually got named, but Agatha was short lived and weak, only a smidge above being a 40 mph storm. Agatha had no impacts either, so Agatha will stay. *Blas - 0% - Blas was a really nice major hurricane to track. It didn't last super long, more like average, but looked quite cool as an annular hurricane with it's large eye. Blas did not impact land either. *Celia - 0% - Celia was an interesting hurricane as it ended up developing a very large eye, much bigger then Blas's was. It's cool that it became a category 2 hurricane in Blas's wake as well. However, again, it just formed and dissipated along a straight track which gets a little repetitive. *Darby - 5% - Darby was an impressive and long lived storm that even managed to unexpectedly (but barely) become a major. Near the end of it's near 2-week lifespan it even managed to make landfall on Hawaii. Darby did cause some flooding, but it's unlikely to be retirement worthy. *Estelle - 0% - Estelle struggled despite somewhat favorable conditions and even though the NHC at first was predicting a category 2, Estelle couldn't even become a hurricane. Estelle did not affect land either. *Frank - 0% - Frank developed suddenly and advisories weren't even initiated by the NHC until it was already a TS, but then it struggled for a while, stalling in intensity as a 70 mph storm. However, just when it had weakened all the way to 50 mph and we all thought Frank was done, it made an amazing comeback and finally attained hurricane status, actually reaching an 85 mph intensity which is a step above a minimal hurricane, which was very impressive! Despite the earliest forecasts saying Frank could impact Baja California, Frank did not impact land in the end. *Georgette 0% - Georgette was an impressive storm, becoming a beautiful category 4 storm unexpectedly after a short stall in intensity. However, Georgette was short lived and actually weakened faster then it strengthened, never impacting land. *Howard - 0% - Howard spent most of it's short life as a sheared storm (a punishment for not getting named during July? :P), and was never able to strengthen much, then rapidly dissipated faster then forecast, which was lame. Howard had no land impacts. *Ivette - 0% - Read Howard. *Javier - 1% - Javier was a rather short lived tropical storm, however it posed a threat to land the entire time. At one point Javier looked somewhat well organized, and got somewhat close to becoming a hurricane, but when Javier neared land it got rapidly dissipated. Javier did cause minor flooding, but wasn't able to even make landfall. *Kay: 0% '- Kay was a moderate tropical storm that did not threaten land except for perhaps higher than normal surf, therefore it will not be retired. It tried somewhat and I think was a 60 mph storm at some point, unlike what the NHC said. *Lester: '''0% '- Lester was a long tracked and strong hurricane that in the end never really affected any land! Lester posed a small threat to Hawaii, but missed, and as a result it ended up being a strong fishspinner that refused to weaken for a while. Lester was a fun storm to track. *Madeline: '''0.01% ' '- Madeline was a strong hurricane but wasn't too long lived. It posed a threat to Hawaii, but shear destroyed Madeline and it missed as well. It scared people a little bit, so it gets a non-zero retirement chance because Hawaii did that once, but I doubt Hawaii would retire Madeline for scaring people, considering Iselle was not retired. Central Pacific *Pali - 0% - Pali was an insanely amazing storm that did not impact land! All the time we waited for Pali was worth it. Pali was amazingly long lived, even if it WASN'T January, and Pali spent it's entire life close to the equator. It was insane how Pali was a category 2 hurricane almost at the equator. It was a shame that Pali got dissipated by the close encounter with the equator though, we could have seen Pali become a typhoon if it had survived. Even with that, Pali was a one-of-a-kind storm that was an epic start to the season. Isaac's prediction Doing it in 0%, 25%, 50%, 75%, and 100%. *Pali - 0% - Not close to any land mass. *Agatha - 0% - " " *Blas - 0% - " " *Celia - 0% - " " *Darby - 0% - Insignificant damage. *Estelle - 0% - " " *Frank - 0% - " " *Georgette - 0% - " " *Howard - 0% - " " *Ivette - 0% - " " *Javier - 0% - Insignificant damage. *Kay - 0% - " " *Lester - ? *Mandeline - ? --Isaac829 00:10, August 30, 2016 (UTC) roussil's predictions (Retirement colors: 0%, 0.01%, 1%, 5%, 10%, 15%, 20%, 25%, 30%, 35%, 40%, 45%, 50%, 55%, 60%, 65%, 70%, 75%, 80%, 85%, 90%, 95%, 99%, 100%) (Credit to Steve820) *Pali: 0% - meh *Agatha: 0% - meh *Blas: 0% - meh *Celia: 0% - meh *Darby: 15% - extra points for hawaii landfall *Estelle: 0% - meh you 70mph faillicia *Frank: 0% - meh *Georgette: 0% - meh *Howard: 0% - meh *Ivette: 0% - meh *Javier: 0% - meh *Kay: 0% - meh *Lester: 0% - meh *Madeline: 0% - meh *Newton: 5% - few deaths so... *Orlene: 0% - meh *Paine: 10% - could have gone with sometihng better than 10% *Roslyn: 0% - meh *Ulika: 0% - meh user | MonseurRoussil97 | user Eric's retirement chances *Pali - 0% - Similar to Alex in the Atlantic, a cool off-season hurricane that didn't affect land. *Agatha - 0% - I don't like this name, which sucks because she'll be back in 2022. *Blas - 0% - Category 4 hurricane with no impacts. Nice. *Celia - 0% - If you knew better, you would do better. *Darby - 5% - Minor damage to Hawaii. See ya in six years. *Estelle - 0% - HA. What a joke. *Frank - 0% - Thank you for becoming a hurricane, unlike your predecessor. *Georgette - 0% - See Blas. *Howard - 0% - And I thought Estelle was a fail. *Ivy - 0% - ^ *Javier - 5% - Minor damage won't take his name. *Kay - 0% - Don't even. *Lester - 0% - See Georgette. *Madeline - 5% - See Darby. *Newton - 10% - Some damage and nine deaths makes him the deadliest storm of the season thus far, but isn't enough for retirement. *Orlene - 0% - Why the f-ck didn't this become a major hurricane? *Paine - 0% - See Javier. *Roslyn - 0% - At least she tried. *Ulika - 0% - Fun to track. *Seymour - 0% - My favorite of the season. He will return in 2022, as he had no land effects. Incredible. Eric 21:18, October 23, 2016 (UTC) Post-season changes Well, TD One-E's TCR is out, so I'll add this here. Not much difference, if any. ~ KN2731 {talk} 10:10, August 9, 2016 (UTC) :Estelle's is out, sadly no upgrade to hurricane status :/ --'Dylan' (Hurricane 99) 11:56, September 16, 2016 (UTC) ::Agatha's out. Winds were upped to 50 mph, but no change in pressure. TG 20:56, September 27, 2016 (UTC) Here's my thoughts on the TCRs: *Paine: 90 mph → 100 mph - Because of its close proximity to C2 strength, its possible that Paine could be upgraded to C2 in post-analysis. This is really the only storm that has a chance of a major change. [[User:TornadoGenius|'T']][[User talk:TornadoGenius|'G']] 14:42, October 17, 2016 (UTC) :I'm hoping Orlene will be upgraded to a major. Intensity increases for Georgette, Lester or Madeline are also welcome. ~ KN2731 {talk} 11:01, November 8, 2016 (UTC) :Frank came out long ago. Upped to 75kt/987 mbar. 02:30, November 27, 2016 (UTC) ::As Bob noted on the Atlantic page, a bunch of TCRs were recently released for this basin: Darby, Georgette, Ivette, and Kay. Darby was slightly stronger than initially estimated: 105 kts/958 mbar, as opposed to the operational peak of 100 kts/962 mbar. Georgette formed 15 hours before the first advisory was issued, but also went post-tropical about 9 hours before the last advisory. Ivette curiously formed as a tropical depression 3 hours after the first advisory, so either it became a depression between 18z and 21z on August 2, or the first advisory was slightly premature. Kay formed and degenerated about 9 hours each before the first and last advisories, respectively. --'Dylan' (Hurricane 99) 13:32, December 1, 2016 (UTC) :::Madeline's EPAC-proper portion is out - doesn't count for much of the storm's overall lifespan, but it's still worth mentioning. --'Dylan' (Hurricane 99) 01:41, December 7, 2016 (UTC) ::::As part of what is probably the NHC's quickest TCR in some time, Tina is out. Formed 12 hours earlier than operationally assessed, so it was a TS for 24 hours instead of 12. --'Dylan' (Hurricane 99) 01:37, December 14, 2016 (UTC) Okay lots of TCRs are now out. Celia, Estelle, Kay, Lester, Newton, Orlene, Paine, and Seymour are all available now. Only notable changes are Lester's bump to 125 kt/944 mbar and Seymour's pressure lowered to 940 mbar. ~ KN2731 {talk} 14:50, February 23, 2017 (UTC) : NHC released their report on Ulika recently, but they're still missing Matthew, Blas, Howard, and Roslyn...or maybe they're just lazy on putting the latter 3 up on their website, seeing as how Lisa's TCR wasn't posted on their page until 3 weeks after they actually finished it. Ryan1000 02:28, March 6, 2017 (UTC) ::Blas is out without much changes, leaving Howard and Roslyn for the EPac. ~ KN2731 {talk} 10:55, March 21, 2017 (UTC) ::Roslyn and Howard are out, both came out at the same time, So I dont know who won, if at all.Allan Calderini 00:58, March 24, 2017 (UTC) After 3 years, Pali's TCR finally came out. Only change was that the duration was shortened from Jan 15 to Jan 14, and pressure was upped by 1 to 978. [[User:Roy25| ~ Roy25 ]] [[Message Wall:Roy25| Talk]] |''' '''20:51, February 10, 2019 (UTC)